Deeper Perception Made Practical

Traditional Enlightenment Experiences, an Interview with Jill Erin Mabie

Traditional Enlightenment Experiences. Enlightenment Coach Rose Rosetree interviews Jill Erin Mabie.

Traditional Enlightenment Experiences. JILL is the first student that this Enlightenment Coach with this kind of Enlightenment.

What’s that kind of Enlightenment like?

Jill Erin Mabie, newly added onto our Enlightenment Life List, has generously agreed to share her story. As a teacher and writer, I’m personally touched by her story. As an Enlightenment Coach, I am happy to have this guest post for a technical reason. Usually I help clients to move into Age of Awakening Enlightenment.

Jill is different. Her soul was aiming for Traditional Enlightenment. So that is where she has landed.

My Traditional Enlightenment Experiences

Preface to Jill’s Interview with Rose

I will be willing to fill in those details when asked specific questions. Please know, I am not embarrassed or ashamed to share any specifics. Opposite that, I just want to keep this as relevant to everyone’s curiosity and needs for their personal journey as possible.

So, I feel more comfortable with the question-and-answer format. Compared to the lecture-like sharing format for those details.

Q. Did It Matter, Being a Molecular Empath?

Being a molecular empath has complicated my life immensely. For that reason alone, a lot of my history would be very unique to me and not really relevant to many others.

As a molecular empath, I suffered a lot and, now I know, needlessly. If only I had had a Rose in my life as a child!

In fact, learning to be a skilled empath was probably the single most important step that I took that accelerated my development into Enlightenment.

I had to learn to delineate between me and other. To learn who Jill Erin Mabie is… as a human! Before I could relax into my Divinity.

Putting this differently, I had to be able to experience my humanness as joy. Instead of predominantly painful and confusing.

Before I could really experience that deeper Divinity, I had to experience myself humanly.

Q. Jill, What About God as a Punishing Parent in the Sky?

Always I have felt a close connection to God. But that was very muddled by the lack of awareness of the empathic gift. Further complicating my connection to God was… the religion I was raised in.

Growing up, I developed a lot of guilt. And viewed God as a big parent in the sky. Someone who was ready and willing to punish me. (For my own good, of course).

So, my predominant emotions about God were attraction, mixed with guilt and fear.

When you want to control someone’s behaviors,.these emotions are good. Otherwise, this combination is helpful for spiritual development. Not at all.

Q. So, Jill, Did You Stay in that Religion?

Actually, I left the religion and became an agnostic for a while. My pragmatic nature was very suited to that way of viewing things. I rested in that view.

After a few years’ hiatus from any form of spiritual practice, I became involved in Shamanism. Following that, Buddhism.

Now? I view the Shamanism as a necessary step for me to bridge the predominant attitude of seeking guidance from outside of myself to seeking guidance inside.

Thanks to Shamanism, I learned to journey to my power animals and guides. Then I would ask questions and gain information. Aiming for guidance that would be useful and necessary to my human life and spiritual seeking.

All This Contributed to What Would Later Become

Traditional Enlightenment Experiences.

Definitely, I had some very amazing experiences. But, I had also had some very amazing experiences during my very devoted and sincerely seeking organized religious days.

Having these experiences readily available to me, I noticed that.

Regardless of the belief system and methods used to get to that state of readiness for them — these experiences came.

Consistency of having these experiences helped me to expand my personal beliefs. As a result, expectations  shifted. Away from one, rigid, belief system to an openness to anything that works.”

Q. Given that Knack for Getting Every Spiritual Path, What Came Next?

Buddhism was a natural progression from the Shamanism. Turning more and more within, I found the core of my being.

Totally accessible, that core of my being!

Shifting into trusting that as my guidance felt good. Instead of always seeking signs and magical solutions to my dilemmas.

Even here, though, I discovered within Buddhism more than the experiences of my Being. What else was involved? Different forms of rituals and beliefs. Fairly rigid, actually! Consequently, I found myself rebelling against that rigidity.

Finding the simpler form of Zen Buddhism, that appealed to me most. But still it triggered a rebelliousness in me.

Looking back, I see this rebelliousness as an indication of something important for Traditional Enlightenment Experiences.

Awareness was growing of my own internal Divine Beingness. Experiencing this as the only ultimate authority worth listening to. Or seeking.

Q. Apart from these Spiritual Shifts, Were There Human Changes?

At this point in my life, external circumstances began to take a dramatic turn. And, I do mean Big Drama.

My almost-20-year marriage began to fall apart. The whole divorce process was very long, messy and painful.

While married, I had been associating with a lot with people who regularly used alcohol and drugs. Due to how much my then-husband used them. So he felt most comfortable around others who shared the same habits.

Being an unskilled empath, I was picking up on all of that distress. Unfortunately, I took on considerable of muck and yuck related to their habits. Although I never got into those habits myself, I suffered the effects of them. Because of my lack of skill as an empath.

Q. Might I Ask? What Helped After the Divorce?

Soon after the divorce process started, I began studying, A Course In Miracles. Joining a small, local group. They met once a week at a home. Finally I found a system of spiritual growth that was intellectually congruent. It resonated to the very core of my being.

The essence of “A Course in Miracles” is self-authority and responsibility. It starts you from the premise that you are Divine, Godlike, and Perfect. Only you have just forgotten that. So you receive help to get back to remembering that.

I studied and completed the “Course in Miracles Workbook.” It includes is a lesson you do each day for a year, and which calls into question every previously learned notion about yourself, the world, and your perceptions.

This tears down, and then rebuilds, from the base up. For me, it was the perfect Course at the perfect time. It is not for everyone, and even “A Course in Miracles” says that. After all of that, I was in the stage that is just before going into the final stage of Traditional Enlightenment Experiences.

I knew everything I needed to know intellectually, and had a system of practice and study that was definitely working for me. But, I still needed some major healing. That is when I found Rose. Her work greatly accelerated the healing and growth.

Q. So, Jill Erin Mabie, What about Face Reading Secrets®?

Rose Rosetree’s book on Face Reading! That’s how I found you. Why had I become interested in reading people’s faces and body language? Because I felt I needed something that could alert me to danger.

By now, I had been suffering the consequences of bad judgments about people. So I wanted to be able to protect myself.

After I read your first book on face reading, I fell in love with the author. Here was someone, like me, who recognized the need to know others. Know them, but not judge them.

Face Reading Secrets® was a system of discernment without being judgmental. I finally got up the nerve to order an Energy Spirituality ENERGY HEALING Session with Rose.

At the time, I was scared to death. I felt like a failure in life, and knew that that would be obvious to Rose. I was so scared of being judged, in spite of what I knew from reading her books. But, my desire to heal was greater than my fear.

Of course, that first session was a major turning point in my life. She helped me to cut a cord of attachment that was particularly toxic, and I felt the effects immediately.

The ramifications reverberated throughout the next week until the next session. I bought more of her books, and it was in reading her first empath book “Empowered by Empathy” that I began to understand what being an empath had meant to me my entire life. [Note: This book is no longer available. Instead, there’s now a series of four books on Empath Empowerment®.]

Q. What Changed, after You Became a Skilled Empath?

As soon as I started working through the book [later called] “Empath Empowerment in 30 Days” — I felt a relief and joy come into my life. Joy such as I had never felt before.  Finally I knew what it meant to feel like ME.

As Rose and I did more sessions of Energy Spirituality, felt more free to be me with less guilt or fear. But I still experienced a lot of fear in certain circumstances and around certain individuals.

Soon after becoming a skilled empath, I moved into Traditional Enlightenment Experiences.

Q. Finally, Would You Comment on Psychic Development?

I will speak of the psychic phenomena now, because I consciously avoided them on my journey the last 15 years. I did pursue psychic knowledge and skills a few times in my early life. But I am lucky in that I just knew that was not what I really wanted to do in my journey to Enlightenment.

When I read somewhere that psychic phenomena can happen as a result of Enlightenment, especially as you near Enlightenment, it was a big confirmation of my own internal compass reading of it.

I have had many extraordinary things happen. But, for the most part, I have allowed them to happen. And without attaching any importance to them. Beyond noting them as potential mile markers that I must be getting close.

I see now that to turn and look at psychic experiences and attach importance to them — this would be a mistake. Because it would be the same as attaching importance to outside signs and wonders. Getting distracted from that internal authority.

Comfort and security in the world is not what you really want. It is identity with your Divine Self that you want. To rest within your Divine Self is Bliss and Enlightenment.

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  1. 1
    Curious to Know More says:

    What a fascinating post. Thank you! I am curious to know more about the nature of the psychic phenomena you experienced.

  2. 2
    Elaine says:

    Jill, thanks for posting this, and so eloquently! You’ve helped to add clarity to the entire “being” of enlightenment, and even though it is your unique path, there’s just something really personal in your story that I relate to.

  3. 3

    JILL, of course I want to join your crowd of fans, and altogether thank you for this post.

    I laughed a bit about your noticing that “A Course in Miracles” isn’t for everyone. Around 1983, I had been hearing such amazing things about it. And I had a birthday coming up.

    So I asked my friends to chip in and buy me the set. (Reveals a bit about how much money I had, back in the day, because I was just making enough to pay the rent in my group house, plus groceries.)

    The big day came. There was a party and I was presented with the handsome hardcover books, which I was practically worshipping in advance

    When I had the chance, I started the main book. It so clearly wasn’t for me, it could have had the word “No” stamped over the page in giant letters.

    Same with the Workbook.

    So totally not for me! Even though I have known many people I admire who gained so much from doing just what you did, and now you’re a new one on that list.

    Know what? I got a fine education in self-authority from the experience, my next step forward learning to have more of that.

  4. 4

    JILL, could you share a teaching story (or more than one) about how you overcame human fears?

    Was the process different for you in different states of consciousness?

    Did you learn anything about handling fears that was especially important for you?

    Submitted with a great big THANK YOU IN ADVANCE.

  5. 5
    Jill says:


    I also rejected the Course in Miracles the first time I started reading it. It went against everything I had been taught before. But, I had had experience before in questioning everything I believed and being willing to step “of the cliff” when I left the organized religion I was raised in. It was very much a timing thing for me – and for anyone. In the Course it says there are many, many ways Home. And, just look at your Enlightenment Life List and you have all the testimony to that you need.

    I do think it is very intersting that two of your students have attained enlightenment and, from what I am reading on this blog, I would suspect many more are very, very close. A testament to the elegance of the work you do and the self authority you are such a wonderful advocate and teacher for.

  6. 6
    Jill says:


    All fear is associated with your identity. If your identity is attached to anything that is impermanent – that would be anything of this world or your physical body – then there can only be fear associated with it to varying degrees. Even embarrassment is a form of fear of loss of dignity – which is an identity.

    All forms of fear diminish as you shift your core identity to your Divine/Enlightened Self because that is permanent, Still, and Love incarnate.

    When you love someone you are willing to suffer any form of indignity or suffering for them. Think of the parent when the child is in crises or any other situation when you have been so other oriented in your thoughts and feelings that you forgot yourself. It can be those transcendent moments with beauty. Those were mini vacations from identity with impermanence to the permanence of Love.

  7. 7
    Jean says:

    Just a wonderful post Jill – many thanks.

    Your plainly spoken yet eloquent words connected with me on many levels.

    Helps me to better understand and accept myself – and where I am at this current moment.

    Between what I have learned from this post – and from Roses’
    “How Enlightenment Develops” post – I feel much more confident moving forward with all this pertinent information now under my belt.

    This all being said, I would respectfully second the request made by Rose – I too would like to hear more about how you overcame human fears – and how this process was different for you as you moved through the different states of consciousness.

    Learning all this is such a joy for me – even though doing so involves facing potentially painful issues.

    I now feel a greater ability to be in touch with a deeper level of courage around dealing with such issues.

  8. 8
    Rose says:

    JILL, about your Comment 5, there are indeed many clients and students I’m aware of being close to Enlightenment, as you and JULIE have been.

    This is one reason I feel so thrilled at time being on our side.

    Who in the New Age Community hasn’t heard about 2012 being a momentous year? I wonder what will happen with the ever-increasing vibrational levels now and in the future.

  9. 9
    Rose says:

    As a side note, JILL, related to your Comment 6, your reason for initially rejecting “A Course in Miracles” was probably very different from mine, reflecting our different backgrounds.

    I immediately recognized a description of a state of consciousness that I had learned about for years, through the tradition where I had worked and studied for those decades. As a teacher of Transcendental Meditation who had spent over a year just on retreats with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, plus devoting most of my waking hours from 1969 to well into the 1980’s to serving my master, that meant a great deal of information — some of it cult mind control but much of it traditional concepts from Hinduism about higher states of consciousness.

    Including untold hours in the presence of an Enlightened pundit, Brahmarishi Deverath… (He was magnificent, soul thrilling!) And many more hours reading translations of Vedic scriptures, hearing Vedic hymns chanted on recordings, and listening to translated commentaries on Vedic ceremonies by an ancient sage named Jaimini.

    Rather than this kind of knowledge being new to me, it was all too familiar — as theories and ideas and concepts, even vibrational installations. Given my instant recognition of similarity, the Course was, for me, a repackaged “Been there, done that.”

    Hence I had zero interest in learning more about such things; already I owned them at my current level of consciousness; and, I suspect, owned them in seed form for the rest of the incarnation.

    Experience of consciousness is different from understanding about consciousness. For decades, including the 1980’s, 1990’s, 00zone 00s, and now this 10-der decade of human evolution on earth… my personal path to Enlightenment has not involved fascination with such concepts — except for serving as a teacher of what would be relevant to my people.

    As for my personal path, that has required integrating my “Expansion experiences” from the 1960’s and 1970’s — plus moving out STUFF and filling up with what thrills my soul.

    Funny, and that is how I help clients as well, rather than — say — being another teacher of “A Course in Miracles.” 😉

    And now come you and JULIE, being generous teachers to the “Deeper Perception Made Practical” community (including me). From my perspective, comments by both of you, and this gorgeous post of yours, fascinate me far more than the Course in Miracles!

  10. 10
    Anonymous says:

    Beautiful and illuminating post, Jill.
    Thank you!

  11. 11
    Dave says:

    “Life is now not grim; it is not fearful all the time. You experience fear, laughter, courage, boredom, hurt feelings, insecurities, self-consciousness, embarrassment, and all the other emotions, but you have an underlying understanding that it is all OK. And only in paying attention and accepting it all as right and good can you have it work for you and for your good.”

    WOW! I’ve come to almost the same conclusion recently! Awesome stuff, thanks for the post! Life is becoming increasingly easy and joyous, interspersed with that other stuff too 🙂

  12. 12
    Dave says:

    Julie, I would like to ask if your human ambition has diminished since you became enlightened. I’ve always had the idea that ACHIEVING things becomes less important after enlightenment. That you can kind of rest on your laurels so to speak, not needing to DO anything. I don’t believe this is exactly correct, noting the very productive post-enlightenment people on Rose’s list. But have you experienced any of this phenomena? Does what I’m asking make sense? Or are you just as interested in DOING things in human life as you always have been? Perhaps more so now…

  13. 13
    Jill says:


    I am so glad you are finding this helpful. It is questions like yours and Rose’s that are helping me to clarify my journey and experience of enlightenment so the gratitude goes both ways.

    To be more specific about the fear thing, I have been a very fearful person all my life. As a child I was very poor and my parents didn’t get along. I had no extended family and I was the oldest child.

    I lived in constant fear of losing my parents to divorce or death, (they were much older than most parents), and I felt all the responsibility for caring for my younger sisters that most oldest children feel. Those fears informed and shaped my life decisions for the first five decades of my life.

    I desperately wanted an extended family, financial security and to have my sisters be my – sisters.

    I was terrified of being alone – of growing old and not having anyone there to care for or about me. I was determined to be financially secure. I was so embarrassed by the fact that my family had to go on welfare for several months every year when my father was out of work that I determined that as soon as I could work my family would never go on welfare again.

    All of those decisions were driven by some form of fear. I accomplished everything I determined to accomplish for myself, but, in the end, I was estranged from my sisters, my parents were dead, I was divorced from a 20 year marriage and I was friendless in the darkest hours of my life.

    Virtually every fear had come true in one form or another. During the divorce I was living with the very real possibility of ending up homeless and I had given up my nursing license so I had no career to fall back on in my late 50’s. I was suicidal. I had the barrel of a pistol in my mouth, aimed at the base of my brain with my finger on the trigger and sobbing 2 times.

    Both times I decided to not pull the trigger because I didn’t have anyone to take care of my cat. Now THAT’S a thread to hang on to!

    That spark that seeks life was just barely an ember. But, that was when I was invited to the Course group and I gradually began to fight for my life, again. I struggled for about 3 1/2 years through the divorce and getting my desire to live and, even grow spiritually, back again.

    During that time I always chose to act with complete integrity in spite of having every dirty trick in the book pulled on me. I managed to get a lawyer who understood and respected my wishes in that.

    Because of all the decisions I made during those darkest of hours to maintain my integrity and take the high road – not because I felt or wanted to be viewed as “better than”, but because I have always wanted to remain congruent within, I came out of that period feeling closer to enlightenment.

    I was practicing the tearing down and rebuilding of my perceptions and building my trust in God and it all worked just as I was told it would. This is where you can pick up in the Post when I met Rose.

    The process of overcoming fears was never different. There is always only fear or love. You don’t ever really overcome fear. You just step out of it as you step out of any identity with anything that can be feared or lost.

  14. 14
    Jill says:

    Curious to Know More,

    Thank you for your question because I think a lot of people are interested in psychic phenomena these days. Actually, people have been interested in it for all of human history and it can help or hurt. That is why it is addressed in almost all of the “Systems” for seeking enlightenment in the world.

    In my personal case it started when I was very young. I had telepathy with people. It was strongest with my mother. This was more than just the empath way of experiencing another in some way. It frightened me so bad when I was just out of high school that I made the conscious decision to turn that one off. And, even though I tried later to get it back I never did. It’s just as well, too.

    I have had the experience, many many times, of knowing that something was or wasn’t going to happen. It was the complete failure of that “gift” to warn me of the divorce and how it came about that threw me into a crisis of faith.

    All of the Shamanism work was done in the psychic realm. One of those experiences was on the day that my father died. He had slipped into a light coma at home where I was caring for him. I knew he was going to die but I didn’t know when. On the morning of the day he died I “journeyed” and was told by one of my Guides that Dad was going to die that day. I broke a dental appointment I had for that day, for that reason, and was by his side when he opened his eyes, looked at me, reached a hand out to me and, very peacefully exhaled his last breath.

    I now have the experience of synchronous happenings all the time. These, I believe, are just normal to life when you are enlightened and I am growing used to them just being the way life is.

  15. 15
    Jill says:


    A very interesting question. I am so happy to hear you are in that stage of embracing life and loving it. Fun, isn’t it? And, that fun will never end now.

    I love creating in my work. I own commercial buildings and have many tenants to deal with as well as maintaining those buildings. I love serving my tenants and creating space that is beautiful and conducive to their success in their businesses. I am currently creating a web page for my business. I feel joy and satisfaction in what I do. If I were younger I might consider acquiring more space. As it is, I am considering expanding my business in other ways. Call it ambition if you want. I call it having fun and just doing more of it.

    Does that help?

  16. 16

    JILL, about your Comment 13, things must have been incredibly bad for someone with your courage and light to have readied a gun for suicide. Twice.

    Silly thing to say, perhaps, but I am so sorry that things were ever so bad with you, even half so bad, even once.

    Whether Enlightened or not, you have been so loveable! Reading this part of your story is humbling to me.

    Most other people were oblivious, weren’t they, at that time in your life? While your ex-in-progress actively wished you ill.

    The takeaway, for me, from this part of your story is how we never know what others go through in secret. (Unless we do aura reading or skilled empath merge, and even that is best done judiciously, not all day long.)

    If the sorrows in life, even such great ones as you faced then, are hidden… I still believe that so many great joys, such bold feats of courage, innumerable beautiful spontaneous acts of generosity and kindness are hidden as well… and outnumber the sorrows and fears.

    What do you think about this, JILL? Hasn’t the math come out that way for you, despite all the challenges and fears?

    And how about the rest of you, Blog-Buddies, whatever the vantage point of your consciousness?

  17. 17

    About ambition, or simply the ability to accomplish in objective reality, thank you so much DAVE for that smart Comment 12, as well as your great response, JILL, in Comment 15.

    DAVE, JILL isn’t an outlier in the accomplishing department. I think of others I know from the Enlightenment Life List:

    *Jeffrey Chappell, with an amazing career as a concert pianist, a jazz composer, teaching music at Goucher College, teaching music classes for kids, his internationally selling copies of “Answers from Silence,” his magnificent blog at

    *Judy Lavine, with her incredibly powerful work as a physical healer, so in demand. And Judy, incidentally, is a great example of someone Enlightened who can work with impunity using a range of shamanic techniques and Reiki. No distractions for her, as her connection with “It” is the solid priority — and experience of personal identity.

    *Larry Garrett, the busiest hypnotist in Chicago, who runs a healing center with top mind-body-spirit practitioners, has such a fun and free life, also finds time for writing a column in a neighborhood newspaper, writing a fabulous column for the most prestigious journal in the field of hypnosis, the “Journal of Hypnosis” published quarterly by the National Guild of Hypnotists.

    *Just try to track all the doings of Donna Eden, whose idea of a typical weekend is to give a world-class workshop for 250 people or way, way more.

    *Jozef Dominguez has his fingers in so many important pies, it’s hilarious. Google him, for instance, to learn about just a small fraction of the coaching he does, with such diverse groups of people, plus highly lucrative business ventures. This year, Jozef was my guest at three different weekend workshops and, when not busy helping my students, I would grab a few seconds to watch him. That man was busier than I was, despite apparently sitting quietly in his chair in the back of the room.

    You get the idea, DAVE. In Enlightenment, your desires become God’s desires. And when you’re there, expect that God will find plenty of ways for you, with so much talent, to stay productively busy.

  18. 18

    What an amazing quote in your Comment 13, JILL:

    “You don’t ever really overcome fear. You just step out of it as you step out of any identity with anything that can be feared or lost.”

    Also, I would like to underscore the teaching point in your power-packed Comment 14 about synchronicity. To me, this is a typical example of how a seeker or teacher will take a component of Enlightenment and try to turn it into a path.

    Cart doesn’t pull horse. And mimicry doesn’t bring Enlightened identity.

  19. 19
    Dave says:

    Excellent answers to my question Jill and Rose. I think it is settled for me now: all of those enlightened people ARE so busy and successful. They are magnetizing money quite well 🙂 Very inspiring stories.

    I also wanted to express compassion for what you went through Jill! That sounds absolutely awful! It is a dramatic and powerful story, and reminds me a bit of Eckhart Tolle’s story of ling standing suicidal depression before becoming enlightened.

    I wonder if you think that this helped you on your path at all? Did you need to fulfill some karmic responsibilities, or could that negativity have been avoided and you still have reached enlightenment? That is, were the lows necessary to “cross over”? I’ve always gotten that impression from Tolle. Still, Amazing courage, and I agree with what Rose beautifully expressed above. And, now that you’re enlightened, do you dwell on this past at all, or is it just something that happened, that was almost in a separate incarnation for you, a different identity? I know I feel a bit of that as a look back of decisions and behaviors from me much earlier in this lifetime! Same but different, ya know? Me but not completely me.

    Expressing compassion and gratitude for all the education and evolution on the blog!

  20. 20
    Rachel says:

    Hi Jill,

    I am curious as to how you went from being close to homeless to being the successful owner of commercial properties.

    I don’t mean to pry into your personal circumstances, but I just wondered whether getting back on your feet in an objective, material way was directly related to your spiritual growth (you know how New Age people say that what’s on the inside manifests on the outside) or did you focus on taking action in non-spiritual, human type ways in order to make more money in life?

  21. 21
    Jill says:

    Rose and Dave,

    Thank you for your compassion toward the details of the fear and pain in my past life. I really don’t like to share that at all unless there is a lesson in it for someone else. It was, I believe, a karmic lifetime as well as a last push to enlightenment. I have always been considered a pollyanna type who would rather be happy and see the silver lining around the dark cloud and I feel that that is what I decided to be born with as a way of coping with the circumstances I chose to be born in to. I take full and complete responsibility for all of my decisions and for my life as it turned out because that is the only way to fully claim my power. It was all necessary to get me to enlightenment in one way or another and it worked because of my consistent, unwavering desire to know how to love perfectly. I have always had that desire from my first memories here. It was that that I sought rather than enlightenment, per se.

    I don’t believe that everyones path needs to be that painful or bumpy at all. Each of us has our own karmic debts to pay and have chosen how quickly we want to learn, grow and become enlightened. I do remember when I was reading about different peoples experience of becoming enlightened I became alarmed and actually asked God to make my enlightenment (should I be so lucky in this lifetime) a much less dramatic, sudden event so I could continue to function non-stop. I got that wish. It was a slow dawning event that I just noticed one day and said a deep, heartfelt, thank you to God for. So, ask for your enlightenment any way you want it and I am sure that as long as you are consciously seeking it it will happen just that way for you.

    The months before the dawning of the enlightenment I had totally relaxed and let go of trying for that as a goal. I just had the trust and assurance that it would happen when the time was right for me and for everyone else who my particular life would touch. And, as soon as I started the serious healing work with Rose everything in my life turned around. I found a sister who had been adopted out at birth and I allowed a man into my life who loves and takes joy in sharing my life with me as much as I love and joy in his company. I have everything I thought I wanted before for security reasons. But, now I don’t feel that if I lose them I have lost anything more than their physical presence in my life. The love and joy we share is eternal. I can allow them the full freedom to be whatever they are and whatever they become without feeling threatened by that change. It just keeps getting better and better.

  22. 22
    Anonymous says:


    Wow, wow, wow – thank you for sharing your very powerful story. So inspired by your courage and so humbled by your integrity.

  23. 23
    Anonymous says:

    This dialogue is incredible. A few comments of my own:

    Rose, in Comment #18, I have heard the same thing from Chrissie Blaze – psychic phenomena may be experienced on one’s spiritual journey (and often increase as one is closer to enlightenment), but are not the goal. I also agree with you that Jill expressed this beautifully:

    “When I read somewhere that psychic phenomena can happen as a result of Enlightenment, especially as you near Enlightenment, it was a big confirmation of my own internal compass reading of it.

    I have had many “extraordinary” things happen, but, for the most part, I have allowed them to happen without attaching any importance to them beyond noting them as potential mile markers that I must be getting close.”

  24. 24
    Anonymous says:


    In your Comment #12, I second Rose’s response in Comment #17.

    The person I would name is Dr. Andres Martin, a professor at the Yale Child Study Center, also on Rose’s Enlightenment List. He is one of the busiest people I know. And yet I never have the experience when I am with him that anything is strained, forced, or unnatural but rather that everything is happening perfectly in every given moment, just as it should. I also never have the feeling that he is in competition with anyone or anything. It is the natural humility of an enlightentened soul.

  25. 25
    Anonymous says:


    In your Comment #16, I have to say that I agree:

    “The takeaway, for me, from this part of your story is how we never know what others go through in secret. (Unless we do aura reading or skilled empath merge, and even that is best done judiciously, not all day long.)

    If the sorrows in life, even such great ones as you faced then, are hidden… I still believe that so many great joys, such bold feats of courage, innumerable beautiful spontaneous acts of generosity and kindness are hidden as well… and outnumber the sorrows and fears.”

    I am not yet enlightened, but based on my personal sessions with you, as well as my sessions with Bill Bauman and Tantra Maat, I am convinced that the biggest growth for people happens through experiences, through every small or large experience we go through on Earth, through every experience of joy and pain. Rose, I know you have often referred to Earth with various humorous names in your books and on this blog: The Learning School, the School Where the Grades Don’t Correspond to Levels of Consciousness, the School of Hard Knocks (wait, that might be an affectionate name from Bill Bauman!).

    As Bill would say, “It is all just too cute.”

    Another comment I have heard Bill, Tantra, and even others sometimes say is that the greater our light may eventually inspire others, sometimes the greater the obstacles and karmic responsibilities or setbacks that might be set before us. I have heard Bill even go so far as to say that he has never known anyone who has really accomplished something who has not faced and overcome significant challenges on his or her journey.

    Rose, you know this from reading auras – you even have a term for it: “scar tissue.” When someone responds to a challenge greater than what they agreed to in their life contract – or responds to a challenge with more grace and integrity than could have been reasonably expected – they earn the honor of having scar tissue in the corresponding chakra in which the life challenge was faced and learned.

    The challenge could be external or internal, but it has to be significant for the person facing it.

    Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts may earn badges for every level of learning on the way to Eagle Scout. Spiritual warriors earn layers of scar tissue for every challenge they face with grace, honor, and integrity.

    Eventually, they just might become enlightened.

  26. 26

    Eloquent comments all, ANONYMOUS.

    Yes, scar tissue in chakra databanks is my very favorite experience when reading auras or doing Skilled Empath Merge!

  27. 27
    Jean says:

    Oh Jill.

    Many thanks.

    I deeply honor your courage with what you went through – and your superb bravery at sharing with me – and all of us – this aspect of your journey.

    I sure am glad that you made the choice to stay here.

    Once again – much of what you write of speaks to me on many levels.

    I will be re-reading, meditating on and learning from what you have written for some time.

    I am also grateful to be reading and learning from all the comments from everyone else here.

    Thanks to everyone on this blog…including of course a huge thanks to Rose
    – oh Rose – your work brought all this about.
    What an amazing accomplishment for you.

    In conclusion….(I cannot resist saying this)…
    ….as I type this my two large feline companions (who are brothers) sit on either side of me – two beings whose presence in my life has most definitely been key in helping to keep me safely grounded in this human reality.

  28. 28
    Jean says:

    Anonymous I too am appreciating your comments.

    Thank you for bringing up scar tissue.

    Have heard Rose mention this and now I have a greater understanding.

    Integrity …such a thing…. truly a tool that is ever available…. an aid in all situations and interactions…

    This is an amazing discussion.

  29. 29

    Sweet comments, JEAN. But I can’t take much credit. I am one teacher of many to JILL.

  30. 30
    Jill says:


    Good question. I was going to elaborate in that comment but it was already long and I didn’t know if anyone would want to know.

    During the healing, about 6 months into the divorce process, I finally pulled myself together enough to realize that I needed to fight for myself and my rights. I did that and finally won a portion of the shared property. My state does not have laws that gauruntee anything when you go into divorce and that was what I had been told. I was shocked by that and I guess that was why the other lawyer and the ex were willing to try any dirty trick possible. The reputation of his lawyer alone was enough to strike fear in many hearts and I initially succumbed to that fear. Coming out of the divorce with only the shirt on my back (what my ex told someone) was a very real possibility if I hadn’t fought back. So, yes, I had to get real in the worldly sense and deal with this in very human terms. But, always, I kept my eye on the big prize for me of maintaining integrity and not becoming bitter or vindictive. I had always wanted to know how to love perfectly and here was the furnace in which to be tested on that.

    What I learned from that is that perfect love is perfect freedom. I must allow everyone to be just what they are and love them just where they are and just where they want to go. I have to feel complete within myself and honor myself as well. I cannot judge – but I can use judgement in this world. That is what I did – in very real, human terms.

  31. 31
    Jill says:


    Do you suppose it is possible to come through traumas, feel incredible pain, and yet not develop scar tissue? I ask that because I always felt that I did not want to carry forward any form of bitterness or learned response. Does that make sense? For instance, when I was young and would be taunted by classmates I would cry, but I would also pray to God to please keep me soft and vulnerable and not ever let me get hard and defensive because of this pain. I wanted to be able to experience the pain as the first time, every time, and that was proof to me that I had not built any barriers to experiencing the next person fresh and free of past experience. Perhaps I knew at a deep level that that was necessary to get to where I wanted to go in this lifetime.

    Scar tissue, to me, would be evidence that I had not truly forgiven and forgotten. To forgive is to forget so I can hold that space we all want in others to feel free to be who we are without being judged.

  32. 32
    Jean says:

    Yes Rose -forgive me- point well taken.

    Clearly expressing my thoughts with appropriate written eloquence is often a bit if a challenge for me.

    While I have noted that Jill (and Julie) have worked with many teachers…

    I meant to thank you Rose….

    – for bringing this all to light on your blog
    – for the teaching, writing and all the integrity-based information you work to put out there for us all.

    These thoughts come to mind as I reflect that if it weren’t for you Rose we might not be having the remarkable dialogue we are now having….

  33. 33

    Awe, JEAN. You sweetie!

  34. 34

    JILL, then I had better clarify, hadn’t I.

    My idiocyncratic terminology may have it backwards compared to you but, to me, in no way is scar tissue related to failure. Just the opposite.

    “Scar tissue” in a chakra databank means to me that a person learned galore. In fact, the person not only went through the karma or challenge but did a JILL-type job and wrung out so much growth from the experience, the result was even more evolution than was in the original life contract or the typical growth potential for the situation.

  35. 35

    Not only have you gained all that magnificent “scar tissue” in chakra databanks (by doing just what you described in your Comment 31) but many, many, many of you Blog-Buddies have as well.

    I know because I have been in session with you and have done Skilled Empath Merges with you’all.

    JILL’s way is not necessarily your way. Any form of courage, integrity, refusal to give up, nobility of action, generosity, etc. could have won you that scar tissue.

  36. 36

    As for going through difficult experiences and relationships without gaining scar tissue, sigh! That is the norm.

    Anyone here ever hear words like these?

    Blaming psychic attack.
    Blaming psychic vampires.
    Blaming energy vampires.
    Blaming narcissists.
    Blaming toxic personalities.

    Enough said, right?

  37. 37

    Mitch and I just got back from a three-day vacation at gorgeous nearby Annapolis. I didn’t mention this trip at the blog because we don’t want to advertise when we are away from home…

    That’s why I have been able to add long comments while moderating the blog. It has been time off, woo-hoo. 🙂

    As part of the fun of the holiday, I have been reading a sweet little book put together with quotes from Enlightened Parmahansa Yogananda, “Karma and Reincarnation.”

    My favorite quote so far is quite a propos to this conversation about scar tissue. Yogananda wrote about how people would use psychoanalysis or similar systems to blame their problems on others.

    Yogananda continued, “The root causes of our problems grow out of sight, in the subconscious. We put down those roots ourselves….if anyone behaves badly towards us, it is him we blame for our hurt. That we might in some what have attracted that hurt never enters our minds.”

    See the rest of this unusually acerbic quote from gentle Yogananda on Page 34.

  38. 38
    Wrinkle In Time says:

    Jill, thank you so much for your sharing your personal story.

  39. 39
    Amy says:

    Jill, thank you very much for sharing this!

  40. 40
    Jill says:


    re: your comment 25 quote of Bill Bauman, “It is all just too cute.” I LOVE that. I hesitate to share much of the details of my life – though I am more than willing when asked – because I don’t want to emphasize the drama at all. This quote is so perfect for expressing the real importance that should be given all the dramas of life beyond the learning opportunities they afford us. Thank you so very much for sharing that.

  41. 41
    Jill says:

    Dave,Curious to Know More, Elaine Grace W, Wrinkle In Time, Amy, Jean, Anonymous, Amy and, of course Rose, thank you so much for sharing here and asking your questions. You have helped me clarify how I present the development into enlightenment. You are all teachers and I am grateful to you.

    I want to especially thank Rose who was and is very important as a healer and teacher to me. Your dedication and love that is expressed through this blog is an inspiration and a gentle prodding to all of us to maintain our integrity, clearly define our means and goals and to ever be vigilant in nurturing our Self Authority. Her offering of the tools we need today to make good judgements using Energetic Literacy are invaluable to anyone seeking enlightenment/peace/happiness in your life.

  42. 42
    Julie says:

    I also appreciate your willingness to tell your story, Jill, and particularly that you don’t gloss over the difficulties you’ve had.

    I think that can give a lot of people hope, can give us all hope, to know that the silver lining is bright bright bright, even if we don’t see it at the time.

    We just have to stay in the game:)

  43. 43
    Jean says:


    While I agree with you in what you are saying in your your pertinent comment #41….
    -would like to respectfully point out that comment #25 that you refer to was written by Anonymous – not by myself (and a great comment it was too…)

    Was just re-reading everything – my I do feel like I have learned a whole lot recently with all that is being talked about here.

    Thanks Jill, Anonymous, Rose and everyone participating here.

  44. 44
    Wrinkle In Time says:

    I am still up to my eyebrows in diapers and I manage to write a post or two now and then, but even just lurking at Rose’s blog has been immensely helpful to me. And the sessions of course. Last but not least Rose’s books are fantastic. I will never forget when I came across a blurb about The Most Important Person In the Room and then when I read it for the first time. So thank you again Rose and Jill and everyone else on this blog! You rock! I’m really excited to be your contemporary.

  45. 45
    Jill says:


    Thank you for your correction of my mistake.

    Anonymous, I apologize for the mistake. Again, thank you for sharing that wonderful quote.

  46. 46
    Adam McIntosh says:

    Hi Jill,

    Have been very much enjoying reading your post and comments. I’m learning a lot!

    I have a question: How have you found enlightenment to affect your physical health? Do you still get colds and flus? Has it affected longterm illnesses or physical issues you have had? How are your energy levels generally?

    I realize this is quite a personal line of questioning and I don’t want to intrude on your privacy… So please, feel free to be as vague and non-specific as you like (or not answer at all if that is your wont). As a physical healer I am just very interested to learn a bit more about how spiritual enlightenment and physical health interface.

  47. 47
    Jill says:

    Adam McIntosh,

    Thank you for this question. I had always thought that an enlightened person would be equally healthy and never get ill again, too. Then, when I read about other enlightened masters I was alarmed to see that some of them even developed cancer. I read about one Buddhist enlightened master who died of heart disease in the ICU but took a longer period than usual and “csme back” several times like he was playing on the edge. He really described it as playing.

    Now I can relate to that attitude of playing. Personally, I have hypothyroid and need to take naturally compounded thyroid hormone and I still do that. In fact, I didn’t even start to address that health issue until after the divorce and that could explain some of the depression. I haven’t had a cold or other acute illness in a very long time, but I would not be disappointed if I did. I view the body as something I need to stay here and I honor it and will care for it with diet and exercise as best I can. But, the body is an imperfect vessel and I am not identified with it any longer so I can be in it with a sort of curiosity and playful attitude.

    My sense of humor about all things human has greatly increased. I can laugh at myself and others foibles – when appropriate – very easily. If someone else is very identified with their body I do not ever make fun of that or disrespect their beliefs in any way. I do not ever want to make someone defensive about where they are right now. That only serves to intrench them deeper into their current beliefs. Gentleness and kindness are always appropriate. But, if it feels appropriate, a little humor can go a long way to prying someone out of their current identity with their body and lift them out for a brief time.

    Being a healer all my life I can identify with you particular curiosity in this area. I can only say that you will be an even more effective healer because you will have no buttons, personally, to be pushed by anyone and that, alone, frees you up in every other way. I can’t imagine that enlightenment can’t have a huge impact on my own physical health but it is still fairly new to me so I can only wait and see. I certainly am no longer afraid of anything and that is huge.

    Hold each person lightly in your consciousness and allow them the freedom of their path. Only assist them as appropriate to them and that is the best you can do. Even Jesus would ask the person if they wanted to be healed before healing them. Most people are completely unconscious about what they really want – which is freedom from identity with their body all together.

  48. 48

    Wow, JILL. Thank you.

  49. 49
    Amanda says:

    What an amazing conversation. It’s been a honour to read all of it. Thank you everyone, and thank you Jill for providing fresh inspiration, food for thought, and helping to uninstall some old ruts in my own thinking.

    I’m about to sound very naive, but I started on my path years ago and never thought about what the endpoint was – never researched, or even thought much about what enlightenment would look like or sound like or feel like. So for me these descriptions are so fresh and new and wow-inducing. Thank you, very much!


  50. 50
    Amanda says:

    I would just add on the theme of deep suffering, that for me it has been a transformative experience where you cannot escape noticing that you and you alone create the suffering, and that the pain is not ever the pain of not being loved, it’s the pain of not being love.

    At one point I hurt so much that I had to be present to the pain and now I know that when people say ‘it was like a knife in my heart’ they are merely describing the pain of a challenged ego, which has nothing to do with the situation and everything to do with the persona’s own reactivity.

    (So funny. I meant to write ‘person’ there but ended up with a great Freudian slip!)

    It was a harsh lesson but it made the necessity to love very apparent, and it forced me to take responsibility for my own pain rather than heaping it on others.

    So, dark spaces and pain – really, it’s what you have brought in to deal with yourself, and fearing it isn’t necessary because it’s part of your makeup or it isn’t, and in one case you have good work to do and in the other, you’re just not signed up for that lesson!

    plus, pchah, it’s only ever a thought without any reality attached, and thoughts are negotiable 🙂


  51. 51
    Anonymous says:

    Hi Jean and Jill,

    No worries at all about attribution. I am glad both of you liked it, though I cannot claim credit. That would go to the amazing Bill Bauman.

  52. 52
    Adam McIntosh says:

    Wonderful, Jill. Thank you so much for sharing so generously! I have a lot to think about. 

  53. 53
    Claudia says:

    “the pain is not ever the pain of not being loved, it’s the pain of not being love.”

    Thank you Amanda! That is such a perfect expression of profound understanding, I feel like it hit me right between the eyes!

  54. 54
    Claudia says:

    Jill, thank you for sharing so generously and deeply. And thank you to all the other posters. I’ve learned so much from all of you.

    I’m fascinated by the idea of simply stepping out of fear. Jill, would you please say a bit more about how you were able to get there?

  55. 55
    Claudia says:

    Jill, I found Rose through her blog, read some of her books and also put off scheduling an appointment for a looong time out of fear of being judged. Like you, my desire (or in my case desperation) to be healed was ultimately greater.

    I’m so glad you overcame that fear, because now we’ve all gotten to learn from you. Your story is so inspiring.

    Thank you for sharing so generously and deeply. And thank you to all the other posters. I’ve learned so much from all of you.

    I’m fascinated by the idea of simply stepping out of fear. Jill, would you please say a bit more about how you were able to get there?

  56. 56
    Jill says:

    Hi Claudia,

    The only change I would make to Amanda’s quote would be to add that it is the lack of awareness that you ARE love. We are all, only, love, we just are not aware of that, so we respond to everything from a place of false beliefs about ourselves.

    Your question about fear is very timely for me. I just spent yesterday with a friend who got ill and lives alone and is recovering slowly so got scared and needed someone to be with her. This friend, Gladys, is always afraid. She sends me notices of different foods to be afraid of and different scams to be aware of and she talks about all the dangers in the world all the time. She chooses to live alone way out in the country and then complains about being lonely. There is nothing I can say that will convince her she is safe and her safety is within herself. She has a strong Christian faith and tries to get me to go to her church, but she is still fearful about everything. With her, and anyone else I encounter who feels afraid of anything, I never try to talk them out of it. Fear is a choice they have made – just as it was a choice that I made.

    To try to tell yourself or anyone else that there is nothing to fear only makes them defensive. It is a direct affront to their ego defenses.

    The only way to step out of fear is to live “as if” you are the complete script writer for your life. You have to live as if everything and everyone in your life was a choice that YOU made and THEY made and you collaborated on the script to afford both of you the opportunity to undo some Karma between you. You have to drop the victim mentality completely and embrace your power completely.

    Rose shared this quote from Yogananda in Comment 37 from his book, Karma and Reincarnation, “The root causes of our problems grow out of sight, in the subconscious. We put down those roots ourselves….if anyone behaves badly towards us, it is him we blame for our hurt. That we might in some what have attracted that hurt never enters our minds.”

    I bought Yogananda’s book and it is excellent for explaining this. The Course in Miracles says exactly the same thing in a different way. I was only when I embraced that message and just started living “as if” – even when it hurt and I didn’t want to believe it- that I started to grow out of fear and more and more into my power. So, even when you don’t believe it or feel it completely, just live “as if” you have that kind of power that wrote the entire script of your life as it is. And live as if everyone in your life – no matter how “bad” they seem, collaborated with you in writing that script out of deep love for you. You are presenting each other with an opportunity to Wake Up. You always have the choice to take that opportunity or not. But, if you don’t take the opportunity this time, then you will be presented with the opportunity again, by another soul who loved you enough to play the part they are playing to present that opportunity again.

    This is a very difficult lesson to accept to the ego. In fact, it is impossible to the ego. So, by pretending, you can side step that block and work around it to get into the habit of feeling yourreal power. As you accept your own power you accept everyone else’s power. But, you don’t feel judgemental toward anyone – even yourself – because your awareness that all of it is being done out of the LOVE that we all ARE grows parallel to your awareness of your power.

    By accepting your own power you will see no one as a victim again. You will treat no one as a victim. You feel only compassion for anyone who believes they can be a victim. You want to help them wake up to the fact of who they really are and you will just know what to do to help them do that instead of entrenching them deeper in their belief of powerlessness.

    Just pretend that all this is true and make all of your decisions based on this belief for a couple of days and see how it feels to you. It will feel harsh at first and very repugnant. But, keep going with it until you see that glimmer of truth and knowing deep inside.

    Thank you, Claudia, for this opportunity to share, again. Best to you!

  57. 57
    Claudia says:

    Jill, I’m overwhelmed by your wise, kind and generous response and can’t thank you enough! Yes, my ego screams at this, but I will do my best to follow your advice. Lord knows, I have been presented with many opportunities to confront this and it sure is exhausting :0.

    I think I will take a look at Yogananda’s book if it will help to breakdown some of my barriers to this and of course get some help from Rose too.

    Much love and all good wishes to you!

  58. 58
    Amanda says:

    Hi Jill,

    “The only change I would make to Amanda’s quote would be to add that it is the lack of awareness that you ARE love. We are all, only, love, we just are not aware of that, so we respond to everything from a place of false beliefs about ourselves.”

    Yes, yes, yes! We just forget, no shame or blame, but our true self is always there to be remembered.

    That was a lovely comment, Jill. I haven’t come across the idea of ‘living as if’ before, for me it’s been about release and awareness building, but I love the idea and will spend some time thinking about it. Thank you 🙂


  59. 59
    Jean says:


    Much, much gratitude – thank you for continuing to share.

    I find myself thinking of your words often as I go through my day – and working to apply concepts you have spoken of as I travel along my path.

    And so I have a respectful request…..


    A bit different than fear….

    Jill might you consider sharing about how you have dealt with anger in the past – and how you deal with it now?

    Submitted with a heartfelt “Thank You” in advance 🙂

  60. 60
    Catherine says:

    Wow, this is one of my favourite posts + comments at this blog, and I pretty much love every post!

    Thanks everyone for all the insight.

    Thank you for sharing your story, Jill. You give me inspiration to keep going and growing!

  61. 61
    Catherine says:

    I’ve had some terrible experiences that I’ve been angry and bitter about, and I’m starting to feel more positively about the notion that I and the people in my life lovingly decided to write this script.

    I knew this intellectually, but now, I’m actually beginning to accept and embrace it emotionally.

  62. 62
    Catherine says:

    I’ve been re-reading Robert Schwartz’s Your Soul’s Plan, and I just applied for a name change after having a few name alignment sessions with Rose, so I’m experiencing some interesting emotions and perspectives right now as I wait for my new name to become legal in a few weeks.

  63. 63
    Catherine says:

    Act 1 of my life was full of drama and tragedy.

    My soul must’ve wanted an interesting, challenging first half of my life.

    I hope I delivered a reasonably good performance. Rose saw some scar tissue in my databank for emotional growth, so I think I did okay 🙂

  64. 64
    Catherine says:

    I’m curious to see how the second Act will unfold as Catherine, and I appreciate all the guidance at this blog in navigating life with a strong sense of self, presence, power, integrity, empath skills, and energetic hygiene in these strange times!

  65. 65
    Primmie says:

    How lovely to have the chance to read this post again. It is beautiful, like Jill ?

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