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Deeper Perception Made Practical

If you don’t believe in God, how can Energy Spirituality help you? Part 1

 

An eloquent, heartfelt comment came in this morning from SOPHIA. When you read it, you may understand immediately why I moved it into the start of a whole new thread, as the start of today’s blog post.

So, first, the words of new Blog-Buddy SOPHIA….

What if the concept of God revolts you?

I’ve been working with “Become the Most Important Person in the Room.” I feel quite overwhelmed with skepticism though, as some exercises mention God.

For the life of me, I cannot turn to God, in any shape or form.

I can’t quite express in words how distant I feel to the idea of turning to God.

Mildly put, turning to God for help would be like turning to “Lexi” from [the how-to book for empaths] for help (I feel extremely unease around that “Lexi”, I literally want to take a step back simply when seeing her in a picture).

To the best of my ability, all I know on the topic of God, I have heard from other people.

I have no first-hand knowledge of God.

The only way I could turn to God, is by somehow getting the approval of other people first. And this doesn’t look like it is ever going to happen.

Given that all I know on the topic of God, I have heard from other people and have no first-hand knowledge of God, how could I possibly turn to God?

I am wondering if you have already written on this issue, and if you could please direct me to it. [Not yet, SOPHIA. You’re inspiring that now.]

(I am familiar with “Let Today Be A Holiday : 365 Ways to Co-Create with God” – but it doesn’t seem to address my problem; it seems to be only for people who already believe in God.

I’ve always envied theists for being able — and, apparently, chosen — to believe in God.

It seems unfair to me that I can’t believe in God, and I feel pained that I can’t; but at the same time, I cannot but acknowledge the possibility that belief in God is something reserved only for the chosen ones.)

Thank you.

Now for your help, Blog-Buddies

Sure, I have a post or two full of ideas on this really important topic, Blog-Buddies. But this morning is devoted to getting my September newsletter written, and the rest of today’s work is soooo booked solid.

So let’s start with YOUR wisdom and experience in response to SOPHIA’s question.

  • Many of you Blog-Buddies are skilled empaths, who used to be unskilled empaths. The method of Empath Empowerment(R) helped you, and you might not have been terribly keen on God yourself — not having the same set of difficulties just expressed by SOPHIA but a fairly close set of your own.
  • Or you might just have some wisdom to share as a newly empowered empath.
  • Others of you may be experienced clients with Energy Spirituality sessions. You know that I invite YOUR choice of Divine Being into a session. Anything to share with SOPHIA about your experiencees?
  • And some of you regular readers are just interested in the aura reading part, the Stage Three Energetic Literacy. None of those cool aura readings of celebs at this blog would happen without use of the Get Big technique. (You’ll find it in “Aura Reading Through All Your Senses” and “Read People Deeper” and other Rose Rosetree how-to’s.
  • Plus “Magnetize Money with Energetic Literacy” would be $zero$ if I hadn’t been able to use techniques in Aura Reading Through All Your Senses(R). So you Blog-Buddies might have some great insights to share with SOPHIA.

Well, go for it! I’ll make your comments live and get to my commenty blog post when time here frees up.

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  1. 1
    Primmie says:

    Sophia, I’m sorry to hear that your relationship to God is a difficult one. I understand some of your feelings. I have no concept of a sentient God and call myself an atheist.

    I’ve spent lots of time in spiritual groups and read spiritual literature. I’ve benefited a great deal from following suggestions about God in those groups and in literature.

    I’ve found it possible to do that by accepting that the word God means so many different things to different people. Sometimes I find it very hard to listen to people talking about God when I really don’t agree with their beliefs. I have to come back to myself then. It’s usually a sign that I’m giving other people too much importance and I need to return to being in my own mind and body.

    I think perhaps I struggled so much with the word God because culturally it can be such an outside-in word. By that I mean it’s a word that had its meaning described constantly in childhood. I’m speaking of my own childhood. As an empath and a very wilful child I loathed having things over-described to me. I found it very confusing and I rebelled when that happened to me.

    For me, I felt that any spiritual connection I might have, had been talked and taught out of me. If God was what the messed up people around me had, I didn’t want it.

    Later in life in more enlightened groups people told me God could be anything I wanted. That didn’t sit right with me either. I couldn’t simply imagine a God and then that God would appear. I can imagine a pink elephant but that doesn’t mean any exist.

    What does work for me is to keep things very simple. I pray when I need to (yes atheists pray 🙂 and don’t question what I’m praying to. I use the word God when it’s called for and when other people use it I remember that they are different from me.

    I can’t say my approach is very sophisticated and sometimes I still really struggle with other people talking about God. Mostly that happens when they talk about it with authority. That can still make me cringe. But I do spent time with people with very different religious and spiritual beliefs from me, and for the most part I can swim in that water and manage pretty well. Even if I don’t actually believe there’s any water 😉

  2. 2
    AJ says:

    I think your beliefs are just fine Sophia. You know, many religions in the world believe the God is just the ultimate form of yourself. That’s what I believe. I don’t believe we’re separate from the divine, I feel like we’re part of it. This is my belief and I realize that other people might not share it. I believe that the Archangels and Ascended Masters are simply archetypes that we use to access the divine. From what I understand, however, a part of you also exists in that place. I’ve heard this called the “Christ” version of yourself. I think some people call this your Higher Self. Could you use “The Highest Version Of Yourself” as a tool to “Get Big”?

  3. 3
    AJ says:

    Primmie, I’m glad to see there are other people as conservative as I am when it comes to spirituality. I too consider myself an atheist. While I’m an atheist, I totally believe in Astrology, Aura Reading, and reincarnation—but I have a really hard time subscribing to a religion. So maybe I’m just an atheist mystic 🙂

    I don’t believe there is one God or many Gods, but I’m open to the idea. I think that if there was a supreme being up in the sky, he (or she) would understand our doubts. After all, why else would we forget our past lives and life between lives while we’re incarnated?

    About the “Get Big” concept, I use Jesus. But that doesn’t mean that I believe in every single story about Jesus in the Bible. To me, Jesus symbolizes unconditional love and it’s a really beautiful energy.

  4. 4

    A.J. and PRIMMIE, thank you so much for your sharing here.

    And, of course, SOPHIA, your original Guest Post is so honest and important.

    I do want to prepare a Part 2 post. Quite a few posts are in the making.

    Including a new one with details someone else’s (former) cord of attachment to LEE CARROLL, even more details about the Advanced Energetic Ponzi Scheme that’s happening now to some KRYON fans. The natural follow-up to: https://www.rose-rosetree.com/blog/2012/07/23/energetic-energy-ponzi-scheme-kryon-lee-carroll/

    I feel a bit like a juggler with many delightful balls in the air…

    Meanwhile, I did want to share something prompted by your Comment #3 here, A.J.

    I once had some neighbors on my street, here in Bible Belt Virginia, who were unusually intense in their being Christian Fundamentalists.

    Most of the folks in my neighborhood probably are Fundamentalists, actually. But JOE and GLADYS really stood out for me one Christmas.

    They put up lots of lights. Only they put them on the roof as a very large cross.

    I thought the message was pretty clear. (Granted, I never asked them directly. For some reason, we weren’t particularly chummy.)

    But the message I read in that holiday decoration was, “The Jesus I worship was good for one thing only. His whole life, right from birth, was about dying for my sins. I am saved. I don’t want to bother thinking about anything Jesusey except for Easter.”

    LOL

  5. 5
    Sophia says:

    Thank you all for your input!

    I do have some informal background in theology. I’ve especially spent time with Christians and the Hare Krishnas.
    I am also familiar with some New Age views on “God,” but they strike me as hopelessly … well, “freestyle” (for the lack of a better word) – and being “freestyle,” how can one be sure any of it is true, how can one be sure one isn’t simply imagining things.

    But the more I’ve been with theists and read their texts, the more distant I have felt to them and to the whole idea of “belief in God.”

    To me, “God” and anything “divine” seems to be strictly in the domain of theists, categorically out of reach to those on the outside, such as myself.

    However, I don’t consider myself an “atheist” in the sense of “a person who believes there is no God or gods” or “a person who doesn’t believe in God or gods, but is willing to change her mind upon new evidence.”
    The stance of agnosticism also doesn’t appeal to me, it doesn’t correctly capture my own view on the matter.

    I think that to ask (directly or indirectly) “Does God exist?” or to state “God exists” (as a reply to “Does God exist?”) is misleading, given the usual definitions of “God.” (Ie. If God is the Supreme Being, the Creator, Maintainer and Controller of everything, then a human cannot discover on his own whether God exists or not, or state thusly, as, given the definition “God is the Supreme Being, the Creator, Maintainer and Controller of everything,” that very discovery or statement is necessarily subject to God’s will, and not within the human’s independent discernment.)

  6. 6
    Primmie says:

    AJ, I’m quite delighted by your idea of calling yourself an atheist mystic.

  7. 7

    Me too, A.J. and PRIMMIE.

    I’m fascinated by the depth of sharing and honesty all you Blog-Buddies are contributing to this thread.

    As you continue, please feel free to add a short paragraph or two per comment. It makes for much greater readability, I think.

    And I do want everyone at “Deeper Perception Made Practical” to feel welcome to add your insights and, even, your personal story about such an important topic.

  8. 8
    Jill Erin says:

    I am loving reading all of the comments in this thread. When I first read this post about Sophia’s feelings and dilemma I was totally stumped about how to approach this subject. I have always had such an intimate and all pervasive connected feeling with Divinity that I was on the other side of the fence from Sophia and couldn’t even relate to not having that connection and “knowing” at all. It is a totally alien concept and feeling to me.

    I love how you, Primmie, AJ, and Sophia, are expressing and handling your feelings about God and religion. This is quite educational for me. Thank you, all of you.

  9. 9
    Amanda says:

    Hi Sophia,

    I like your stance. I’ve always thought atheism is a great route to self-responsibility and, being an individual part of the whole and your own God-ness already, it strikes me as admirably tidy, and certainly nothing to be regretted.

    I myself am fairly inchoate in my view of God, and don’t think about it much, but it is possible sometimes for me to touch the divine within everything and understand that I’m a part of it and that none of us are separated from that. So I have a Zen-ish view of the divine – which I wouldn’t call God.

    There are so many different ways to relate!

    Thanks for providing this thread. It’s been interesting to read and yet another example of the incredibly high quality of this blog. 🙂

    Amanda

  10. 10

    AMANDA, what a lovely thing to feel and write about this blog. Thank you.

    Everyone’s comments here are fascinating to me.

    I’m not blogging as much as usual right now because of being in one of those publishing phases where I need to focus most of my disposable time on typesetting. Such a labor of love for this new book.

    Putting in one more hour today, I hope to have it about 25% done. Whew!

  11. 11

    A very relevant column to this thread came out today in The Washington Post courtesy of Advice Columnist Carolyn Hax.

    I have admired Carolyn since she began writing this column and am a regular reader. This one is among my favorites of hers, ever.

    I’m not sure how long this link will stay live. If you have a chance, soon, take a look:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/daughters-turnabout-on-religion-shakes-mothers-faith/2012/09/04/1e6ead68-f3a9-11e1-a612-3cfc842a6d89_story.html

  12. 12
    AJ says:

    Amanda, I love how you refer to atheism to be “tidy”. It’s funny, because that’s exactly how it feels. There is a comfort there and a cleanliness to it.

  13. 13
    Amanda says:

    AJ, that’s definitely how I see it, and how nice it must be to be out of the confusion 🙂

    Primmie, I really related to your comment here:

    ” As an empath and a very wilful child I loathed having things over-described to me. I found it very confusing and I rebelled when that happened to me.

    For me, I felt that any spiritual connection I might have, had been talked and taught out of me.”

    It’s taken me a long time to trust that feeling in me, but you’re so right – since the feeling is formless and wordless, attempts to describe it can just create terrible muddle.

    I am exactly the same in tai chi – I want to watch the teacher and I don’t want them to talk at all, because it confuses everything. In the older forms of tai chi that was how it was taught – the teacher would do it in silence and the pupils copy it – how wonderful – but sadly these days we are supposed to ‘think’ about everything and verbalise it, rather than being trained to go inside and feel our way through the world, and allow our bodies not our minds do the learning.

    An ‘idea’ of God is such a long way from the wordless understanding of God, and when there’s a lot of talk about it, it’s probably even further away.

    So go you Primmie! I’m still rebellious in that way, but am learning to switch off when I feel the clouds of well-meaning confusion coming at me 🙂

    Amanda

  14. 14

    Particularly eloquent, this quote of yours AMANDA:

    An ‘idea’ of God is such a long way from the wordless understanding of God, and when there’s a lot of talk about it, it’s probably even further away.

    Good to see your comment, too, AJ!

  15. 15
    Primmie says:

    Amanda, thanks so much for what you’ve written. A wordless connection is something I really relate to. I am very strongly connected to the divinity in everyone and everything, although I wouldn’t ordinarily use the word divinity. I suppose I mean the miraculousness of everyone and everything, and how wondrous and amazing life is.

    I’m very grateful for this thread. It can feel lonely identifying myself as an atheist amongst theists. I’m not often invited to describe my non belief although I often hear others talk about their faith.

    I feel more comfortable knowing that there truly is space here for people to be different.

  16. 16
    Jordan says:

    I once had someone tell me that they believed that if you believe in God, you should pick a religion. She meant this in a political sense – like it would have been part of her platform if she ran for office.

    She believed that every one in society who says they believe in God should be compelled to pick a religion, or else they’re “not allowed” to believe in God. (She was non-religious herself, so I guess she identified as an atheist or something similiar).

    I found that belief so disturbing and weird I had her clarify it a few times. Yes, she meant it. And her comments didn’t really seem to ruffle anyone’s feathers but mine. To me, what she was describing was the ultimate violation.

    Plus, it seemed ignorant. Hadn’t she heard the common refrain, “Spiritual, but not religious”? Did she really think that the only people who believed in God were in churches, temples, mosques?

    Not really sure what to make of that, other than that people latch on to weird beliefs sometimes.

  17. 17
    Jordan says:

    Oh, in a similar vein, I had someone tell me that whenever I or my friend mentioned God, all he could think was how stupid we were.

    Aside from being offended by his rudeness, I was angry about my beliefs being thrown in with a traditional Christian’s. I think I am softer in my feelings towards religion and religious people these days, but back then I thought, “She’s the stupid one! I’m NOT RELIGIOUS!” I hated being thrown in the same category.

    It bothered me to realize that there are probably a lot of people out there who make no distinction between a spiritual person and a religious person. To me it’s so strange, as I feel worlds away from fundamentalist Christian beliefs.

    But oh well, I guess that’s why we’re becoming the experts and teachers in this area of life and they’re not.

  18. 18
    Amy says:

    Jordan I can so relate to being put in a box.

    I rarely share that I believe in -anything- “God” “Jesus” whatever.

    Even my ex-boyfriend kind of put me in a box along with all New Age things.

    It’s one of the reasons I was so grateful to take Rose’s workshops this year. I met some amazing people who were very open and articulate about their personal experiences and beliefs. More so than anyone else I’d met in person before even!

  19. 19
    Amy says:

    Also, I checked the statistics for admissions to the training program I want to get onto after my degree. The only demographic that were less likely to get accepted were those who professed ‘faith of some kind’.

    Part of me knows that they are probably wary of hiring someone, such as some of the Fundamentalist Christians, who might refuse to counsel a gay person or something equally intolerant.

  20. 20
    Amanda says:

    Just to add to this wonderful thread, a quote from Eckhart Tolle I just came across..

    ‘The word ‘God’ has become empty of meaning through thousands of years of misuse. I use it sometimes, but I do so sparingly.’

    🙂

    Amanda

  21. 21
    Primmie says:

    Jordan, you may be right that there are lots of people who don’t make a distinction between spirituality and religion. I’ve been thinking about what you wrote, and I realise that I don’t make much of a distinction between the two myself.

    Of course I can see that someone who is a fundamentalist will most likely have a very different viewpoint from a new ager, but nonetheless both viewpoints involve belief.

    For someone who has no belief, it doesn’t much matter whether a believer worships Jesus or sacrifices to Thor or has a shrine to angels, it’s all the same to an atheist.

    I can see how that stance, and it is my own, would be very off-putting for anyone with belief!

    All I can personally hope for as an atheist is that the sense of deep alienation I have from belief doesn’t keep me separate from the things that I respect in spirituality and religion.

    Anything that heals the sense of separation is important to me. It’s so easy to fall back into dismissing theists as deluded and therefore dismissing their ideas, but so much is lost if I don’t stay open.

  22. 22

    These are such wonderful comments, everyone. Please keep up this heartfelt and important discussion. Inspiring to anyone who values self-authority, it seems to me!

    For now, just a great big human Thank You.

  23. 23
    Sophia says:

    To make a long story short:
    I was born in a country that at the time was about 98% Catholic. I was the only non-baptized child in my class in a public elementary school, for eight years. From early on, I was severely stigmatized for being a “heathen,” an “atheist,” bullied because of that.
    Some important members of my extended family also didn’t accept me because I was not baptized. My Catholic grandmother was sure that I was destined for eternal damnation since I was not baptized as an infant.

    For all practical intents and purposes, I was excluded from all connection to divinity before I was even old enough to spell my name.
    I’ve always envied theists – they had something I was categorically excluded from.

    Not to make too much of this sobbing personal history, there is an important point to be made here:

    If one is not, from early on, from birth on, considered a member of a theistic community, then how can one possibly develop a connection to the divine?

    Short of actual divine intervention and personal divine revelation, I don’t see how making such a connection would be possible.

    Trying to be some kind of theist on one’s own, without connection to a particular theistic religion, strikes me as dangerously solipsistic.

  24. 24
    Amy says:

    Sophia,

    I was born in a Catholic country [Snip, Blog-Buddies. The rest of Amy’s wise comment was turned into a Guest Post:
    https://www.rose-rosetree.com/blog/2012/09/14/god-religion-atheist-energy-spirituality/ ]

  25. 25
    Primmie says:

    Sophia wrote: If one is not, from early on, from birth on, considered a member of a theistic community, then how can one possibly develop a connection to the divine?

    Sophia, I look forward to reading what Rose has to say about divine connection for atheists.

    Personally, I don’t think being excluded from a theist community from birth means a person can’t ever connect to God. I know many people who have developed a connection to God who were atheists.

    I think the idea that connection to God can only be achieved through being part of a particular community is a fallacy. I’m sure it serves any religious community if its members believe that, but religious communities are man made and don’t have exclusive rights over the concept of God.

  26. 26
    Amanda says:

    Hello Sophia,

    “If one is not, from early on, from birth on, considered a member of a theistic community, then how can one possibly develop a connection to the divine?”

    From your description of your early life, this sentence sounds to me much more like some kind of idea you absorbed at that time and can certainly release, perhaps through a session or sessions with Rose, than like your true opinion on the matter.

    Since you turned up as part of the Divine already, then belonging to a community or making any effort to consciously ‘connect’ isn’t necessary. It reminds me of the old Zen adage – ‘like riding a donkey in search of a donkey’.

    A lot of religions confuse the point in exactly this way – worshipping an external idea of God rather than sinking back into the confidence that knows you’re enough as you are. I admire how strong this confidence must be in you to have refused such external pressure.

    You’re enough as you are, no effort required, good for you for ‘getting’ that in such a strong way! Bet you wouldn’t get hooked up in any cults either 🙂

    Amanda

  27. 27
    Sophia says:

    @ Rose Rosetree –

    You often mention “self-authority.”
    How do you understand the distinction between “self-authority” and solipsism-like delusions of grandeur?

  28. 28

    SOPHIA, that is a fine question, deserving its own blog post in response.

    I will get to it. There is quite a queue by now, but I definitely will get to it in turn.

    Thanks for asking.

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