Deeper Perception Made Practical

Are You Willing to Pay the Price Spiritually? Perspective from RES.

As long as you're human, usually you will have to pay a price for what you get

As long as you’re human, usually you will have to pay a price for what you get.

Today I’d like to officially set in motion a new theme at this blog: Pay the Price. My perspective comes from sessions facilitated with Rosetree Energy Spirituality (RES).

RES  is a mind-body-spirit field that helps people solve problems with energy READING skills and energy HEALING skills that work especially well in the Age of Energy. Two of my specialties as an RES practitioner are Empath Coaching (with the system of Empath Empowerment®) and Enlightenment Coaching (helping people to move into Householder Enlightenment and also continue rapid spiritual evolution after crossing that threshold).

Helping people to pay the price has come up in all four of these areas. Why?

Earth Economics = Pay the Price

For most things we humans attempt to gain, we must pay the price. Often that price is hidden. Yet we pay it nonetheless.

Earth School is structured that way.

All the examples in this post come from my work with RES clients. Work done here on earth.

  • Energy READING Skills in RES — that means all 15 stages of energetic literacy beginning with Stage 3 skill — can show you about the price to be paid. If you know such a thing exists and are willing to admit it to yourself.
  • Energy HEALING Skills in RES — very often, I’ll help a client to move out STUFF that is related (directly or indirectly) to Paying the Price for something.
  • Empath Empowerment® Skills come at a price. Including that they take a bit of time to acquire. Just because you were born talented as an empath, you can’t just snap your fingers and bam! You’re a skilled empath.
  • Enlightenment Coaching also comes at a price. Just one example: It can be quite a blow to one’s pride to learn that a lovely experience of spiritual awakening is NOT the same thing as gaining Enlightenment.

Bottom line? Blog-Buddies, if you care about emotional and spiritual growth, then get this memo. Whatever we desire, whatever we pursue, whatever is given to us…

We Must Always Pay the Price

Many things about life on earth have changed vibrationally in this Age of  Awakening (the subject of my upcoming book, “The New Strong“). However, this principle is more true than ever for those of us who live now.

Sometimes it’s called “Paying your dues.”

Yet how many motivational speakers, New Age celebrities or Christian televangelists are willing to admit this in public?

How our RES Conversation Began about “Pay the Price”

We were having a discussion prompted by a wonderful guest post by GRACE (from our RES Community Enlightenment Life List), How Enlightenment Can, Indirectly, Help a Person Make More Money. A Guest Post by GRACE W.

Comments revealed many situations in life where we must pay the price for what we’ve got. Even if nobody warned us!

We must pay the price Even if none of our friends talks about it.

Even if none of our friends understands what we’re going through. They may not see the price that we pay. Just as we don’t see the price that, spiritually, other people have to pay.

Longer Definition of the Spiritual Principle of Pay the Price

For every human thing we get, we must pay the price.

Spiritual things may be more grace of God-ey.

And, of course, intersecting karmas with other people — as well as our own karma from other lifetimes reaching us from the past — will count as part of the festive educational experience.

Yes, far as I know, Blog-Buddies, when it comes to getting human-type things like satisfying work or family relationships, them’s the rules:

We’re free to pursue whatever human desire we choose. No matter how noble any desire, we still must pay the price.

And usually that price is hidden. Others won’t know that we paid it.

But the ones who pay? We will never forget.

We may forgive. We still won’t forget.

Now for some examples.

Fame. An Example of Pay the Price

One of you Blog-Buddies might wish to write a guest post on paying your dues regarding fame.

Sure, there’s a hidden cost for <strong>fame</strong>. Questions might include:

1. Why does it seem so wonderful?

2. How does the reality differ? (Including the price being paid one day at a time.)

3. What must a person do in order to pursue fame, over the course of many lifetimes?

4. How likely is it that one incarnation pursuing that fame will be enough for achieving significant fame?

Beauty and Handsomeness. An Example of Pay the Price

One of you Blog-Buddies might wish to write a guest post on paying your dues being gorgeous, exceptionally good looking.

Sure, there’s a hidden cost for beauty or handsomeness. Questions might include:

1. Why does it seem so wonderful?

2. How does the reality differ? (Including the price being paid one day at a time.)

3. What must a person do in order to pursue exceptional physical attractiveness?

4. What about maintaining those looks over the decades? What price must be paid over time?

5. And what price will be paid when those looks are lost? (Because youth is beauty, not necessarily aging.)

6. If you take a multi-incarnational approach to notable physical attractiveness, what would a soul have to do (probably for several lifetimes) in order to be born “gorgeous”?

Marriage. An Example of Pay the Price

One of you Blog-Buddies might wish to write a guest post on paying your dues to get married, to stay married.

The hidden cost of a “good” marriage. Questions might include:

1. Why does marriage seem so wonderful to the person who aims for it?

2. How can the reality differ? (Including the price that might have to be paid one day at a time.) Is marriage worth pursuing regardless of the cost?

3. What must a person do in order to pursue marriage as a main goal in life?

4. Are there relationship skills that could be learned (i.e. another price that might be paid) to increase the likelihood of an authentically happy marriage?

Wealth. An Example of Pay the Price

One of you Blog-Buddies might wish to write a guest post on paying your dues with money.

Of course there’s a hidden cost for wealth. Questions might include:

1. Why does it seem so wonderful?

2. How does the reality differ? (Including the price being paid one day at a time.)

3. What must a person do in order to pursue wealth?

4. How likely is it that one previous incarnation pursuing wealth will be enough for achieving birth into a wealthy family?

5. Which life skills might be part of the price that you pay for financial success?

Pay the Price: An Example.

From Blog-Buddy IRENE:

My friend studied to become a massage therapist. There are many hundreds of massage therapists already in his city. Some are struggling, some are booked out three months in advance.

While he’s doing fine now, he struggled to build his practice right after he graduated. From my observation, that’s part of the learning process, part of learning skills, part of, to use the words from these comments, the price he needed to pay as he developed skill and experience both at the practice of massage therapy and at business.

Who else has an example, Blog-Buddies. Some of you may have many! Well, please comment below. Let’s bring more spiritual truth into this world.

Share this

Join the Discussion

  1. 1
    Amanda says:

    I think any worthy achievement comes with a price.

    Off the top of my head:

    – my qualification in chartered accountancy

    – the months of work my daughter has put into revising for her GCSEs

    – the rewarding but intensive years required to bring up children into something vaguely resembling reasonable adulthood

    – the almost daily practice of tai chi for almost fifteen years that has contributed hugely to getting me through all of the above!

    I am so inspired by this whole theme, Rose.

    Thank you! Amanda

  2. 2
    Amanda says:

    Here’s one paying the price story that has stuck in my head.

    I knew someone who, having done very well in finance, decided to write crime novels.

    She researched the market, read widely, went to workshops and hired an expert to critique her work.

    She hired a room to use as an office so it became her day job.

    She found an agent who found her a publisher. Then she rewrote her book four times with their input.

    And now she is on the shelves of every major bookstore in the UK.

    A real achievement, sensibly planned, given huge input and worked hard for every inch of the way.

    I really admire her.


  3. 3
    David B says:

    Fascinating post, Rose. “Paying the Price” might be considered a western approach. But as I mentioned prior, the ancients said “all arises from self effort.”

    Another concept that comes to mind – tapas. While often translated to mean austerities that’s just one way to pay. Tapas actually means warming – actions we can do to warm or prepare the way for results.

  4. 4
    David B says:

    Another idea – what we put our attention on grows stronger. However, there are unintended consequences wrapped in there.

    What we actually do with that attention is what gives results. What we just think about goes nowhere.

  5. 5
    David B says:

    The result can be some odd variation on what we intended.

    Also at play – that Stuff. This tends to make us averse or reticent about some things, again leading to distortions in intention.

  6. 6
    David B says:

    Finally, on the divine side is another bit of unintended consequence. The divine offers gifts or boons for certain kinds of activities.

    But modern culture is not aware of the guidelines, so we have a tendency to stumble into boons. The extra surprises on the road…

  7. 7
    Irene says:

    When I hear the phrase “paying the price”, I have to remember that it does NOT mean all the puritan work ethic misunderstandings I absorbed growing up like unreasonably hard work, sacrifice and suffering are virtues while pleasure and enjoying what I do are sins.

    I definitely agree with the principle here. If I want something in my life, I have to do the work to bring it here. Wishing is not enough.

  8. 8
    Irene says:

    It is rewarding to look back at my life and realize where I’ve paid the price to get what I have now.

    Some experiences were less than fun but they’ve definitely been worth it.

  9. 9
    Irene says:

    It’s all too easy to look only at what I still want to accomplish and forget that I chose to prioritize what’s in my life now.

    Many things are not here as a result.

    Some I might like to have, but none I want or wanted enough to pay the price to have them here. Instead I have these skills, friends, belongings and opportunities. And it’s a pretty great place to be.

  10. 10
    Kira says:

    I have plenty of examples of *not* paying the price.

    I have a lot of talents, each of which I could develop more. I could practice piano or voice to perfection instead of to “good enough”; I could practice drawing until I could reproduce almost anything; I could learn all kinds of jewelry-making techniques instead of making it up as I go.

  11. 11
    Kira says:

    For all I know, I had the potential to be world-class at something, but the price for that would have been practice. Lots and lots of practice.

    Also, specialization. I opted to use my talents for fun and for gifts and not to narrow them down to just a few (due to time spent practicing).

  12. 12
    Kira says:

    It turns out that I’m more interested in the outcome than in the process; I get a particular idea of something I want to create, and then I figure out how to create it.

    As a result, I was never willing to pay the price to get really good at any one creative art.

  13. 13
    Kira says:

    I discovered this when I had a job as an artist personalizing containers. As long as I felt like I was proving that I could draw well, I enjoyed it.

    When I drew something well enough that everyone else was impressed, it stopped being fun. Until then, I was annoyed that I couldn’t seem to make myself work harder to get better at creative arts.

    I didn’t immediately realize the exact nature of my disenchantment, but that was definitely the turning point in understanding it.

  14. 14
    Jesse says:


  15. 15

    IRENE, DAVID B, KIRA, IRENE, JESSE, and AMANDA, thank you so much for these insights.

    DAVID B, related to your Comments #3 and 4, you and I share life paths where a portion of our spiritual background once involved doing tapas in the form of meditation and long courses with “rounding” TM-style.

    Other Blog-Buddies have, too. Yet how many of us ever had a clue about that “warming” aspect you’ve mentioned? Ironic! Since the path we were on at the time was, supposedly, to help us evolve spiritually as householders rather than renunciates.

  16. 16

    For any householder, and especially for those of us in Householder Enlightenment — or seeking it — the role of paying your dues, or taking action, or warming — this is part of how to win today’s “Guru Game.”

  17. 17

    AMANDA, I wonder if you and other Blog-Buddies appreciate what has been left out of the success story you summarized so beautifully in your Comment #2.

    Let’s call your friend… “Gladys.”

    Yes, in this lifetime Gladys paid her dues to become a successful author in all of the ways you mentioned.

    But what else didn’t you acknowledge here?

  18. 18

    Gladys has achieved an exceptional degree of success as a writer, and after working on just one book.

    Well, what separates her from thousands, perhaps millions, of writers who also dedicate themselves just as diligently to writing professionally?

    And for more years than Gladys has done!

    And at much greater personal cost!

    And even when their commitment was of the “struggling artist” variety, rather than the enviably position of Gladys, as a comfortably well off writing novice with no financial woes. Golly, she could avoid an office more expensive than her local Starbucks!

  19. 19

    Most likely, Gladys has spiritually paid the price for her current success in MANY lifetimes, including many years (or even lifetimes) as a writer.

    This helped her to have the good karma in this lifetime to hire a GOOD writing coach, in contrast to many who are not really good writing coaches.

    I suspect that many of the people who serve as writing coaches today are NOT necessarily very good at it. For sure, writing coaches and similar consultants to indie publishers are more likely to make money than the writers — whether self-taught or proudly gaining their credentials from educational instutitions or living at writer’s colonies, etc.

  20. 20

    I wish more people understood this theme of paying the price spiritually.

    Because it’s so easy to read a comment like yours, AMANDA, or read a website, or hear an acceptance speech when somebody just won a coveted prize…

    And think, “Yep. That person earned it. XYZ is all a person has to do to win at this game.”

    Confusing notions like ths keep the experts and coaches in business.

    You may personally know materially unsuccessful writers, singers, dancers, models, actors, athletes, artists, photographers, meditation teachers, Reiki masters, aspiring chefs, day traders, real estate agents, interior decorators, and others. After a while, they either adjusted and found other sources of income or they kept on pursuing their “dream.”

    I have known many, many.

    But do have I seen people like this on TV or read about them in newspapers? Not really. Have you?

  21. 21

    As an Empath Coach, it’s very important to me that every single person I teach can gain skills that really work, Empath Empowerment® skills, to be precise.

    As an Enlightenment Coach, everybody I work with can move forward on his or her path to Enlightenment, and progress more rapidly (I believe), even if that person hasn’t paid enough of a price over the lifetimes to move into Enlightenment this time around.

  22. 22

    One more comment of a personal nature… I was thinking about your Comment #2 for a while, planning to write what I’ve already written here in comments… when it struck me.

    I’m in bookstores all over Germany (pretty sure) and maybe in Austria and German-speaking Switzerland as well. With the title “de Aura erkennen mit allen Sinnen.”

    In English, that’s “Aura Reading Through All Your Senses.”

  23. 23

    You see, I’ve paid a lot of price in this lifetime to become a professional writer. Still am paying prices, like dealing with… grrrr.

    So far, my karma has been good enough for me to have one national bestseller, in Germany. It might actually still be in every large bookstore in that country.

    One of the times I attended the Frankfurt Book Fair, I went into a chain bookstore. My book was on one of the shelves, and it was even displayed cover out (rather than spine out).

  24. 24

    Blog-Buddies, I was so excited that I started jumping for joy. Never before had I seen my books in a chain bookstore. Anywhere else! Ever!

    You can guess how appropriate my behavior seemed to my fellow shoppers. 😉

    Even in a Los Angeles bookstore, that might have seemed a bit weird.

  25. 25

    BTW, I still haven’t had that honor in my own country. But I’m paying the price to be a spiritual teacher and, it turns out, have been paying the price to found Rosetree Energy Spirituality (RES). As part of that, I write the books I believe to help people.

    For all that, I’ve been paying the price (in this incarnation and others as well). And I’m winning.

    And I’m so grateful.

  26. 26

    KIRA, your series of Comments #10-14 is really important, as well as so characteristically honest.

    Being an amateur — one who loves to do something — is an honorable path for any person.

    I think it’s a very post-postmodern thing that so many of us think, “If I’m going to do this, I must become rich and famous.”

    And society conspires, media conspire, experts selling their services — all of them indirectly conspire to persuade us, “Doing things just for the love of it isn’t enough. You must become rich and famous.”

    Bah! Humbug!

  27. 27
    David B says:

    Hi Rose
    If it makes you feel better, I found 2 of your books in a Canadian chain bookstore, Chapters. One however, Empowered by Empathy, was sold out (and out of print). 🙂

  28. 28
    David B says:

    The other point classically highlighted in the Gita is that we have control over action alone, never over it’s fruits. We have to leave results to nature/ the divine.

    But to get results, we have to act. Ergo, the magic is learning to act without expectation of result.

  29. 29
    David B says:

    Action always has consequence – it’s a basic principle even in physics.

    But if we let go of what form that will take, we remove resistance from the equation and we often get much better results than we could have imagined.

  30. 30
    David B says:

    I would add that the warming aspect (above 3, 15) has the effect of expanding the possibilities and enlivening a larger field for results.

    But results come in the cycles of time, not on any personal schedule. Time doesn’t work that way.

  31. 31

    Again thanks, DAVID B. And let’s not forget the wisdom in one of my very favorite posts at your blog, “Wait for It.”

  32. 32
    Lilian says:

    Wonderful post there Rose. I completely agree.

  33. 33
    Lilian says:

    I’m happy as long as I have the opportunity to learn more and try one more time.

    I think as long as you put in the effort, you’ll always be given more opportunity (in one way or another) to do that.

  34. 34
    Lilian says:

    Actually, one thought I was having this week is that I need to remember not to judge people on what they’ve done just this lifetime.

  35. 35
    Lilian says:

    So if people are younger than me, or haven’t been through as much as me, they may still have learnt the same lessons in another lifetime.

    (I’m thinking about this wrt dating choices, mostly. As in, do I have to date old to find someone with the qualities I’m looking for…)

  36. 36
    Lilian says:

    I also find that I deal with karma one topic at a time… as in, for these few years I’m learning about relationships, for these few years I’m learning more about creativity, for these few years I’m learning about self-reliance… and so on.

  37. 37
    Isabella C. says:

    Glad this topic is being highlighted. It’s not a nice n easy one but I think it’s really important.

  38. 38
    Isabella C. says:

    I have a question that might seem sort of off topic.

    I am curious, is there a name (or something) for these two different types of karma:

    1. The type that seems to affect you all the time, the kind you carry close (until healed). Themes in life.

    2. The kind that strikes as if from out of nowhere. (Extreme things happening unexpectedly, like being physically assaulted by a stranger or winning the lottery.)

    Is there a name for this, or further clarification?


  39. 39
    Lilian says:

    Rose has helped me a lot with the family and intimate relationships piece… I was struggling to process those lessons. lol.

    But for things to do with work, and money I seem to be more OK.

  40. 40
    Lilian says:

    Rose, not to presumptuously analyse you on your own blog, but it seems you really are playing the long game… a very long game indeed.

  41. 41
    Lilian says:

    You are creating something so very new, and creating a market for it, and developing the capacity for people to understand what you do…. It’s like the normal channels of success won’t deliver, as much as you need to create your own channels too.

  42. 42
    Lilian says:

    I’ve experienced a bit of this with my own field of work… not to bibble about that.

    But there’s a similar sense of not knowing what “success” might look like. It comes as a surprise!

  43. 43
    Lilian says:

    But yes, price is very much hidden.

    Personally, I find jealousy from others baffling and I realise that others may not understand what I’ve experienced to be as independent and self-assured as I am. (These are my main “wins” this lifetime, I reckon.)

  44. 44
    Lilian says:

    Much love and respect to you Rose. There’s fewer women working in science and maths than I feel there should be, so thank-you for being a role model for me: you’re super creative, self-determined, brainy, balanced, worldly and independent.

    A one-lady research department in a field that doesn’t get government funding.

  45. 45
    Lilian says:

    I don’t know if that actually sounds like support to your ears… lol

    But this is my field of reference. Prof Rosetree of the Institute of RES at Uni of Enlightenment.

    I good expert is always a good teacher, people forget that these days…

  46. 46
    Lilian says:

    I’ve been quiet this week as I may have experienced some good karma myself… we’ll see. I was in shock for most of Thursday.

  47. 47
    Lilian says:

    It’s when I get a new opportunity that I remember to commit to aspects of me that I know can hold me back.

    The worst thing is to get some good karma (opportunity) and not be able to roll with it, because you’ve not developed the skills or sense of self worth (after paying back heavy karma, for example) to really embody that experience.

    But then opportunity will always come again, in its own way…

  48. 48

    More “Pay the spiritual price” ideas, fresh from client sessions.

    What is the price of “forgiveness”?

    Not for the first time, today I encountered a sweet and spiritually striving client who “did the right thing” and “forgave” somebody who did something really horrible to her.

  49. 49

    Forgiveness like that is certainly better than fanning flames of resentment. Or, say, killing that person in order to “get even.”

    But will forgiveness get rid of STUFF, like cords of attachment or negative thought form or outdated facade bodies?

    Bet you Blog-Buddies know the answer to that one!

  50. 50

    Forgiveness can mask problems. Or, even worse, cause a person to live in huge denial.

    As if THAT were helpful for healing.

    Inner dullness, lack of emotional self-acceptance and more… can be the price a person pays for well-intended forgiveness.

  51. 51

    Thanks, LILIAN, for that Comment #32.

    About your Comment #33, I agree.

  52. 52

    What is “WRT” dating, if you don’t mind my asking?

    “What’s Really Trashy”?

    “Who R This-person”? Haha

  53. 53

    Well, ISABELLA C.,I can only respond as a person who facilitates sessions of RES Energy HEALING.

    Depending on what a particular client would bring to a particular session… or what you as an RES expert (Practitioner, in your case!) might learn from a Skilled Empath Merge…

    I can give you advanced training to help you choose a Healing Centerpiece for a session. Of course, that’s for mentoring with me, not for mentoring via blog. 😉

  54. 54

    Frankly, that is the ONLY interest I have in understanding kinds of karma.

    What will help my client.

    To me, the rest is like sorting through “treasures” at a garbage dump. Including the occasional lovely antique jewelry (corresponding to “good karma” in this analogy).

    As for the rest, I leave it to minds that are more philosophically oriented than mine is at present.

  55. 55

    LILIAN, how sweet — not presumptuous at all — your Comments #40-41.

    I already feel successful by doing my job, helping clients, bringing out new knowledge, training RES practitioners, earning a good but not greedy living at the “family business,” and having the time of my life at this blog.

  56. 56

    Laughing at Comment #44. Thanks. A new perspective, indeed.

  57. 57
    Lilian says:

    wrt == with respect to

    I don’t want to date anyone much less evolved than me… been there done that.

    But that doesn’t mean that they have to be a lot older in current lifetime years and it doesn’t mean that they have had to have had the experiences I had in this lifetime.

  58. 58
    Lilian says:

    Comments about forgiveness: I completely agree. This is so important…

  59. 59
    Lilian says:

    I’ve had various run-ins with various ideas of forgiveness.

    There’s never any pay off in denying your experience of objective reality… you’re allowed to survive: emotionally and physically.

    You don’t survive emotionally if you habitually deny your emotions.

  60. 60
    Lilian says:

    David B: Thanks for the thought about tapas.

    It kind of confirms my experience that you need to be in a certain flow state to receive and embody good karma.

    I may be reaching the point where you blog is somewhat accessible to me!

  61. 61
    David B says:

    On Forgiveness, I’d clarify further.

    If someone makes a choice to conceptually forgive, I agree. That’s just the mind. No healing has taken place, just a decision to change the story.

  62. 62
    David B says:

    However, if there is true forgiveness, that comes with an energetic release and can be profoundly healing. But that is deeply felt, not a concept.

    You can’t think your way out of how you feel.

  63. 63
    Lilian says:

    Yes, forgiveness, as an intellectual concept, can be used to manipulate people who are already victims…. Rose would call it psychic coercion, I believe.

  64. 64
    Lilian says:

    True forgiveness comes with a commitment to self love and there shouldn’t be any intellectual concepts about how that should look or what the outcome should be…

  65. 65
    Amanda says:

    Oh my goodness Rose, I love everything you just said.

    Thank you. Lots to think about!


  66. 66
    Christine says:

    I guess this must be my first lifetime in the costume design side of Theatre industry because things aren’t going as well as I hoped.

    “I think as long as you put in the effort, you’ll always be given more opportunity (in one way or another) to do that.”

    I’m hoping what Lillian said here is right.

  67. 67
    Lilian says:

    Christine, I think I am right. It’s hard to understand with your human brain.

    There’s a trick to do hope in a human-level way these days, in a way that doesn’t land you into wishy-washy useless spiritual addiction.

  68. 68
    Lilian says:

    I think that’s a large part of what Rose has to offer.

    For my part, I find that if I keep in a flow of action I keep achieving minor victories, both external (finding opportunity, achieving something) and internal (emotional, physical, mental).

  69. 69
    Lilian says:

    Hmm, talking of both paying the price and forgiveness. I’ve found that to continue evolving as a person I had to change and learn how to break ties with people who aren’t contributing to my growth.

  70. 70
    Lilian says:

    This has been a huumungous, painful, lonely lesson for me. And one that may not make me look like a good person to many people…

  71. 71
    Lilian says:

    So sometimes the cost of growth is a temporary loss of sense of identity.

  72. 72
    Amanda says:

    I have had a chance to consider / feel / listen to what you’ve said, Rose,and I am beginning to understand.

    What a calm and intuitively ‘right’ viewpoint.

  73. 73
    Amanda says:

    David, you have helped a lot too. Since starting to teach meditation, I have struggled. I thought struggle was part of the ‘paying the price.’

    Actually, though, it produces an uncomfortable set of feelings.

    I did a ‘Thrill Your Souk’ session with Rose where we worked out going back to accountancy would fit me better.

    It’s taken me some ‘keep on trying’ time to work out.

  74. 74
    Amanda says:

    But now, I am formally announcing my resignation as a teacher. :0)

    I shall, however, be available for finance projects.



  75. 75
    Amanda says:

    Hahaha, my session was of course ‘Thrill Your Soul.’

    Though when Rose offers ‘Thrill Your Souk’ sessions I shall be first in line.

    Being back in the marketplace and all..



  76. 76
    Kira says:

    Rose, thanks for comment 26!

    There’s a very good speech about being an amateur in a movie I watched with my favorite great aunts years ago—I wish I remembered the title. It was about a church choir and its director. There was a diva (I don’t mean the complimentary meaning) in the group who eventually stormed out, and her parting words were, “You’re just a bunch of amateurs!”

    The choir were stunned into disheartened silence, so the director told them about how the word amateur means doing it for the love of doing it and that sometimes it’s better to be an amateur.

  77. 77
    Kira says:

    Aha! Bing is my friend! The movie is A Christmas Without Snow, and here is the quote (from the character Ephraim Adams, played by John Houseman):

    “Mrs. Burns is right, of course; you are amateurs, unlike certain pseudo-professionals like myself who insist on slave wages. Your voluntary and steadfast attendance at these rehearsals fully qualifies you for any definition of the word “amateur”. What Mrs. Burns and many others are wrong about is the meaning of the word, which has to do with motivation, not quality. Remember “amo, amat, amas”, the Latin verb “to love”. The meaning of “amateur” is “he or she who does a thing for the love of it”. There is no higher reason for singing than the love of doing it. In that respect, you do qualify as amateurs. And I salute you for it.”

  78. 78
    Kira says:

    About forgiveness: I have always found it difficult to hold things against others because I tended to understand where they were coming from, so minor slights were almost always instantly forgiven.

    Certain major things bothered me a lot, but all it eventually took was for the other person to treat me like a person for the forgiveness to kick in. It wasn’t intellectual forgiveness, it was emotional forgiveness; it kind of happened before I even really thought about it.

  79. 79
    Kira says:

    The person I had a hard time forgiving was myself, for several things. I did have to make a conscious effort, but that effort was basically seeing myself as another person, which meant my automatic habit of understanding what could have caused the mistakes made kicked in and then the forgiveness followed.

  80. 80
    Kira says:

    As with many of my experiences, I don’t necessarily recommend that way of doing it. I agree that intellectual forgiveness is not the same as an emotional releasing of the grudge, and that either kind is not the same as removing STUFF.

    I would guess that removing STUFF first can make the emotional release happen.

  81. 81
    Kira says:

    I think I know the answer to this, but I just have to ask anyway—Rose, did you really mean that forgiveness (of the deluded sort) is *worse* than resentment or revenge killing? Because that’s how comment 49 is worded.

    “Forgiveness like that is certainly worse than fanning flames of resentment. Or, say, killing that person in order to “get even.””

  82. 82

    Fixed it, KIRA. Thank you.

  83. 83
    David B says:

    Glad you got some clarity, Amanda. Sometimes there can be that need to push through obstacles. But sometimes that resistance is actually because we’re going the wrong way.

    It can be wonderful to chase our ideals. I don’t regret becoming a meditation teacher in the least. But it sure wasn’t a way to make a living. 🙂

  84. 84
    David B says:

    My sister is winding down her accountancy practice for retirement. It really supported her well and she was able to help quite a few non-profits in the process.

  85. 85
    Kira says:

    You’re welcome!

    I have a friend whose typos very often make him seem to be saying the opposite of what he meant, so I’m sensitized to that sort of thing.

  86. 86
    Kira says:

    I forgot earlier to add that I am utterly intrigued by how a given price may have been paid in previous lives.

    I had considered running with one of your examples, but I knew I wasn’t going to have anything to say about past lives, and I didn’t want to attempt a guest post I knew would be incomplete.

  87. 87
    Kira says:

    I’ve had 2 dreams that convinced me I’d had past lives, but the little I’ve done with investigating them convinced me that I don’t need to know the details (it seems to be part of my “a reading is not a healing” block; I got very little info).

    So I’m okay with knowing almost nothing about almost all of them, but it also means I have very little idea how I’ve paid for my charmed life.

  88. 88
    Lilian says:

    Kira, I think that you may have more of a talent for “emotional flow” than me. Staying steady is one thing, but lots of emotional change is quite another. 🙂

  89. 89
    Lilian says:

    I like this: “Certain major things bothered me a lot, but all it eventually took was for the other person to treat me like a person for the forgiveness to kick in.”

    The thing is that some people won’t ever see you as a person. But I love that idea. Certainly, when it comes to forgiving yourself, it’s important to remember that we were only doing our human best.

  90. 90
    Lilian says:

    My experience with other people demanding forgiveness from me, was as a way to deny me my own upset feelings.

    After one of her rages, my mum would take us all to confession and all would be “forgiven.”

    The stupid priests… honestly. They had no idea what was really going on.

  91. 91
    Lilian says:

    Forgiveness is good, it’s just that we have to follow our own internal process. Even deluded forgiveness helps for a while.. it did for me until I could cope with the real emotions.

  92. 92

    LILIAN, your Comment #90 is an example of why, exactly,I made that “typo” that KIRA caught in her Comment .

    KIRA, it wasn’t that I was typing the opposite of what I meant in my original Comment #49.

    You asked in Comment #81, “Did you really mean that forgiveness (of the deluded sort) is *worse* than resentment or revenge killing? Because that’s how Comment 49 is worded.”

  93. 93

    In my opinion, and I really wanted to prevent hurt feelings from lurkers and Blog-Buddies here, but okay…

    I DO often find (on a case-by-case basis) that “forgiveness” is far worse than resentment.

    And although I’m not a big fan of murdering anyone, or of revenge-type activities, I used that strong language because I meant it.

  94. 94

    Those priests, those spokespeople for Jesus Christ (supposedly), who turned a blind eye to the abuse that was going on in your family, dear LILIAN?

    You bet, I think their bestowal of forgiveness was rank, revolting, evil.

    Catholic priests, who might often have guilted their parishoners over some trifling “sin of omission”! If your parish priest was charged with guiding his flock, with protecting the sheep and especially the lambs… and then he granted absolution to your mother, week in and week out… ach, as you might say. This horrifying behavior brings tears to my eyes.

    I’m so sorry you had to go through this. I’m so glad it’s over now. I’m so glad that STUFF can always, always, always be healed. (And for you, LILIAN, much of it has been.)

  95. 95

    As for the perils of resentment for health and well-being, for which “Forgiveness” is often prescribed as THE SOLUTION…

    Oh, I think not.

    Sure, as I’ve noted elsewhere at this thread, forgiveness makes a fine alternative to many behaviors and patterns of thinking and feeling.

  96. 96

    So what do I find so distressing about sweet, beautiful, “Fixes everything” forgiveness?

    The premise is false. The promise is usually a lie. In my experience, anyway.

    You know, when RES clients come to me, I get to read their auras, or do Skilled Empath Merges, or facilitate their cutting cords of attachment or facilitate some Soul Energy Awakening Hypnosis(R). And…

  97. 97

    O-mi-Dear-God, the atrocities that are denied, or distorted, or cemented in place through “Forgiveness”!

    The horrible behaviors that are sometimes indirectly encouraged because the good wife or loving husband or dutiful child forgives and forgives and forgives… and thereby allows something quite disgusting to continue.

    Behavior that does not HAVE to continue, except that the person being treated so badly keeps forgiving again and again, thereby meekly coming back for more.

  98. 98

    I was impressed by DAVID B’S Comment #62, drawing this distinction:

    “… true forgiveness, that comes with an energetic release and can be profoundly healing. But that is deeply felt, not a concept.”

    See, Blog-Buddies, not to embarrass DAVID BUCKLAND, the awe-inspiring spiritual teacher, but he is not a normal person.

    For decades he has lived in Enlightenment… fully, deeply, and lavishly… being both surrendered and blessed.

  99. 99

    With DAVID B’s state of consciousness he can do a little something, that sounds like an activity any human can do… and then he will attain “true forgiveness that comes with an energetic release and IS profoundly, permanently healing.”

    Can most other people do this? Very, very unlikely.

  100. 100

    Is there anything wrong with trying?

    Are churches to be blamed for asking people to keep on trying?

    Depends, doesn’t it.

    I have seen so much pain and suffering that maybe didn’t have to be except that my client believed in a sanctimonious ideal of “forgiveness.”

Click here to comment ...

Leave Your Comment